[D&D] Running horror

[Skizzm]

So I'm starting a horror campaign, and my players know it (I figured they should, to check if everyone is OK with it. There are 3 players in my gaming group). It's a Diablo setting, many years before the actual games, following D&D rules. (more info here).
All the characters already know each-other as everyone is sick and tired of introductions and they are in a caravan traveling to a nearby small town of Kingsport (from their home village). Characters are traveling there in order to wait for their teacher that's been teaching them for the past few years, and preparing them to travel and explore the world with him.
Now I have evil starting to stir in the otherwise peaceful world whose inhabitants never saw demons or undead, or those who did are too few and hidden. In Kingsport players should get seemingly unimportant clues of how children disappear from time to time "wander into the woods, it's been happening since forever", but lately a bit more often. And should make friends with an innkeeper (whom they know already, since it's not their first visit here).
The innkeeper's daughter will also disappear and that's the main plot hook I'm going to use.
To make this shorter, eventually characters should discover there's a sadistic cannibal (an ex farmer, whom children usually like a lot) in Kingsport and confront him along with his blinking children zombie minions.

So the question is... I want to make my players feel secure and into their characters before dimming the lights permanently. How long (how many sessions?) before the horror kicks in? Or should I start right away, because they already know they'll be playing horror.
Any other tips on horror campaigns or no this cannibalistic adventure of mine are highly appreciated.

[sverbridge]

Typically, when I run a horror storyline I like to start out with everything normal and slowly start to introduce the horror aspects.  In the last campaign, my introduction of the horror element was a scroll prop that I handed over to the players.  it was written in a language no one could read, but the blood stains and the images told the story enough for them to know that all was nit right with the world.  Thus began the slow spiral downward into the horror abyss until they actually came face to face with the full story and the unspeakable horror that they had to stop before it came over to this realm.  It was heavily influenced by Lovecraft and the mythos.

I feel that starting everything out normal gives the players a sense of ease and let them get into the game before you hit them with whatever horror you are looking at throwing them.  It could knock them off balance and I think that is what you need to effectively run a horror game in D&D, keep the players off balance and guessing.  Slowly introducing the horror elements also gives them a chance to "recover" before hitting them with the next nasty bit, which in turn will move them down the spiral into horror madness.  I usually like introducing something that should be normal, but is a little skewed so as to not be the norm for the first intro to the horror world, so it lets the players know that not everything is as it appears to be.
Hope that helps

[Telas]

I'm not a big fan of many of WotC's splatbooks, but Heroes of Horror seemed to be better than most.  It presented mechanics to support a horror campaign, as well as ideas for managing the mood at the table, and plot hooks galore. 

It's not much, but I hope that helps...

[Skizzm]

@ Telas
Checked Heroes of Horror, and Book of vile darkness. Those are my two main sources of inspiration.

So yesterday we had our first session and I started lightly with some regular under-powered bandits attacking their caravan to boost everyone's ego and liking of their characters. However I couldn't resist the urge to throw them off balance (and use "Midnight Syndicate"'s eerie music) so a bee landed on one player's chest while he was at guard duty. (Stole this from Treasure tables). More bees kept coming, and landing everywhere. Others woke up and was obvious everyone was feeling uneasy. In a short time the bees completely covered the wagon and mules they were with (that was the target) so mules ran pulling the wagon with them and players were left stranded in a forest, two days from their destination with a complaining NPC. The icing on top was a simple imitation of a furious cat whose hunting bushes they disturbed. The cat ran away. Everyone jumped at this.
Another thing that threw them off balance was not reaching the city in the next two days, when they knew they should be there already. They did arrive on the third day.
(Mules were found dead on the road, too many bee stings)

All in all I'm pretty pleased, and players got a taste of what's awaiting them. The next session should be completely fear free with hints of children disappearing in to the forest.
However I have another question, regarding music in general. How much mood is too much? Rather, should I use the same creepy song every time something creepy is going on, or mix it a bit?

[VV_GM]

YES!!! I wrote that post for Treasure Tables, and I'm glad to hear that the bee example was actually used in your game! And having an extensive Midnight Syndicate collection I know how that adds to the atmosphere.

[Skizzm]

I couldn't resist using it VV_GM ever since I read it, it wouldn't leave my head.
Thanks! 

[longcoat000]

However I have another question, regarding music in general. How much mood is too much? Rather, should I use the same creepy song every time something creepy is going on, or mix it a bit?

I usually just chuck a bunch of CDs with similar sounds / themes into the CD player and hit "random".  You kids with your new-fangled iPods could do the same thing with a "shuffle" function and a horror playlist.

If a signature song is played, your players will expect whatever the song is cuing up (Pavlovian training and all that).  This is either very good (if you want them to start creeping themselves out, looking for whatever is supposed to be wrong) or very bad (you can't surprise the players with something creepy, or they know that the big bad guy is coming).

If you choose to just let the ambient background music play through, it may be worth it to get really quiet before something creepy happens.  When I do that, nine times out of ten a new and appropriately creepy song comes on (or at least everyone starts paying attention to the creepy song being played).

Of course, that 10th time you'll get "Mr. Sandman" from the Halloween II soundtrack.  So your mileage may vary.

[Rick_TWA]

For what it's worth, VV's scary bees article heavily inspired my "Evil mules" too.

[longcoat000]

Don't tease them, Rick_TWA.  Put up some linkage with that.

[Skizzm]

As I already told Rick, "Evil mules" are hilarious... for the GM, and sure bring some ideas to mind 

What's an iPod? 
Just kidding. I'm using a borrowed laptop with remote connection to my PC, that's, naturally connected to the TV for some cheap surround sound. This is(was) the first time I'm using music to set/improve the mood. And the ability to put the right song when I want seems convenient. (Adobe Audition sure comes in handy to create unobtrusive loops). I kept most of the session quiet, except when something was happening.
Well actually there was one other time when we used some Enya album for constant music and everyone was pretty irritated. This was a few years ago when first LOTR movie came out, we dropped music from the big picture after that and I can no longer stand Enya.

[sverbridge]

Midnight Syndicate has a lot of CDs that are totally dedicated just to the horror genre.

http://www.midnightsyndicate.com/

I really love using their stuff for my horror campaigns.  they do have 1 cd for D&D, but I have never heard anything from it yet.

[longcoat000]

Their D&D soundtrack is actually pretty jarring.  The individual pieces are interesting, but they're not written as a cohesive whole (unlike their other "themed" albums).

That said, you can usually find Midnight Syndicate albums in your local Halloween store (they've started to open up all over the place around here) for about $10 USD each.

[Skizzm]

I have another question regarding horror and some rather brutal ideas.

I've never done this in any of my games, but am tinkering with the idea of PCs loosing their limbs via brutal battle, torture and such. (After all they are facing evil and twisted sadists, cannibals, psycho maniacs etc..)
How do you go about slicing a players leg? Or having him loose an eye in combat? Any special rules, and is there something I'm missing in DM's guide?
Is this a good idea, or does it just bring frustration at the table?

[Telas]

I'd just use a good sharp knife to slice a player's leg.  Followed up with a good sharp attorney, unless you meant character instead of player.   (Sorry, it's a pet peeve.)

In D&D, there's nothing specific about severing a limb, maiming, or doing permanent damage in combat.  Doing so would conflict with the "official interpretation" of Hit Points.  (They don't represent physical damage, but the wearing away of the luck, skill, endurance, etc. of a character.)  Other games do have this mechanic (Savage Worlds, Runequest, etc), but vary in their approach. 

I'd be hesitant to make any house rules for it as well, since the players will just use them against the bad guys, and it will require a lot more recordkeeping from everyone.  (See: Frustration at the table.)

However, what happens in torture or otherwise out of combat is something else entirely.  D&D combat isn't great at "snatch and grab" operations against the PCs, but it can be done.  I'd use a "divide and conquer" approach - Catch a PC away from his friends, knock him out somehow, and Dimension Door back to the hideout.  A motivated group of baddies might create some one-shot D-Door devices specifically for this.  (Note that a KO'd PC is considered luggage for the purposes of a D-Door spell, but remember weight considerations.)

OK, here's more detail, since my brain won't shut off...  The strike team is a four-person group: A strong Fighter, two Rogues, and a Sorcerer or Wizard.  The Fighter grapples the PC, the Rogues sneak attack him with saps (doing nonlethal damage at Sneak Attack levels), and the Sorc/Wiz readies his scroll or device to take the Fighter (with the PC as his luggage) back.  The Rogues will clean up the area, deal with any bystanders, and slink off.  Torture ensues. 

Do this a few times, and you'll have no problems with getting your players involved in the plot...

[Skizzm]

I'd just use a good sharp knife to slice a player's leg.  Followed up with a good sharp attorney, unless you meant character instead of player.   (Sorry, it's a pet peeve.)

Hahahaha! I laughed so hard at this  It just made my day.
Yeah uhmmm... I meant characters... of course, why would I want to sever my players *hides a knife under the rug*

The more I'm trying to experiment with D&D, the more I'm sure I should start exploring some other Pen and Paper RPG options, but that's a topic for another time.

As for Hit Points interpretation, the way we see them is much like in grim-n-gritty HP system (actual vitality / wounds), but I find grim-n-gritty too hard on players that never played hardcore campaigns... I am slightly regretting not using the system now.
So when doing permanent damage I should make players reduce their PCs HP total if it is a vital organ, otherwise reducing ability scores/skills (spot for an eye)? (of course keeping notes of how much for when regrowing those organs via nifty spells such as regenerate, wish or miracle)

I'll take your advice on not making it a house rule for combat though (if I did, me thinks modifying grim-n-gritty call shot rules would be a good route). And thanks for the Rouges/wizard/fighter plot idea, it works perfectly for my game world and should be a good secondary adventure.

[Telas]

I wouldn't drop HP much, if at all...  I'd customize the impact, like Movement and Dex-based gross motor skills (like Tumble or the Dex bonus to AC) for a missing/maimed leg, Dex and Str for a missing/maimed arm, Attack penalties (especially at range) for a missing eye, etc.  Missing or damaged organs may impact Fort saves, and/or Hit Points after all...  Or they may require a certain potion/spell to be used on the character every day (kinda like magical dialysis). 

This is definitely something that requires more of the art side of the GM than the science side. 

Telas

[Rick_TWA]

Depending on the eddition, take a look at the vorpal weapon description.  Old vorpal weapons had a chance to sever limbs in addition to severing the neck and had accompaning guidelines.

Similarly, Trolls were particularly vunerable to edged weapons and could have their limbs lopped off and there were rules guidelines for that as well.

I think in the newer edditions they dropped all of that for simplicity's sake, but it's a good place to start hunting.

[Skizzm]

Thank you guys for suggestions.

So now, I've decided to go limb-loss only via torture and some traps that succeed on a critical hit, this wont be often as I don't really like traps and use them rarely (and I don't really want too many torture scenes, I'm not a great fan of macabre horror). But a huge guillotine falling on a character should have major consequences.
For example let's say a PC had his legs sliced off due to a guillotine trap, he should be bleeding no? How to go with this? Should I allow bleeding be simply stopped with a cure wounds spell, or demand a heal check using appropriate tools (bandages, ropes etc.) And if a character is bleeding he should be loosing something like Hit points? How much would be appropriate per round if any, and is the loss of HP supposed to be dictated by a successful/failed fortitude saving throw?

I hope that's not too many questions.

[Telas]

If you want to go this route, I'd use the existing rules as much as possible, such as the DC 15 Heal check for first aid, and "any Cure spell stabilizes".  I'd go with something like, "your limb is completely severed, and you will bleed out in 2d4 rounds, at which point you will be at -1 HP."  This guarantees them at least two rounds to do something for the limb.  I'd also keep a running total of how many rounds has elapsed, and dock them that many x10% HP...  (So if Farkwad the Foolish loses a leg, and three rounds later, Meddik the Cleric casts Cure Light on him, he would have lost 30% of his hit points.  The HP loss isn't permanent; they can be healed/Cured to 100% again.)

You may want to ask what they're stemming the bleeding with.  Manual pressure works, but it takes one hand and a Concentration check to do anything else.  Belts, ropes, bandages, etc, are more permanent. 

At this point, it should be easy to save the character, but the limb is lost.  And that's where the actual "OMG!" moment strikes... 

Remember that losing a leg means you fall down, and losing an arm means no shield/2HW/2WF. 

Finally, you're taking the game "off the reservation" by doing this.  Make sure your players will be okay with "tripod" characters...

Telas

[Skizzm]

After talking to my group and finding out they're perfectly OK with "tripod" characters, we collectively decided that we want a bit more realistic combat where limbs can be severed, yet still simplified, without called shots and any such extensive rules.
We're using the "three natural 20s in a row equal instant death" rule (but not the "death from massive damage" rule). We added the following:
If you get a natural 20 two times in a row, you roll again (as usual). This can either result in a normal critical hit (a failed third roll); instant death (a natural 20 on third roll) or a super critical (a successful third roll, but not a natural 20).
A super critical is one that may sever an opponents limb/organ.
So a slashing weapon on a super critical can sever either a hand or a leg (determined by a random 1d2 roll), a piercing weapon can destroy an eye or render useless an arm (but not sever) again determined by a random 1d2 roll, and bludgeoning... well, we have no idea what to make with bludgeoning weapons, and I don't feel much like bringing internal organs into consideration, perhaps some head damage, a body part becoming paralyzed or something like that.
This is all still semi realistic, but since the entire combat system in D&D 3.5 is semi realistic, this should suffice. Also it doesn't seem like too much hassle, as this shouldn't occur too often (it's just a bit more likely than instant death).