An interesting idea (Penny Arcade)

[Rodyle]

Hello there,

I am, as at least a few of you, an avid reader of Penny Arcade, and while I was reading something on there, I came across something pretty interesting. I'll quote the most important bit:

I think it works both ways. I know that my players actually like doing RP via email because it gives them more time to think about how their character would respond. The way our games work tends to be that RP happens between games via email. Then when they sit down at the table it's almost like entering an instance in WOW. They spend the week talking to people and picking up quests. Then on Monday night it's combat and usually one skill challenge.

I think that this, keeping the combat in the sessions and the 'pure' rping, such as things they do while in town or something, online. It wouldn't be hard to make a simple forum to do the online bits on, after all. Not only that, but for groups in which the different players live relatively far away from each other (or at least have to travel for quite some time to get there), this might be a very good solution to keep the pace up, since it might be difficult for such groups to gather regularly.

I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this though.

[VV_GM]

For me that would be a complete turn off. I enjoy RP at the table, and I want RP in combat as well. For others it might be the perfect fit. It just seems to be a matter of personal taste.

[Rodyle]

I wouldn't say that it completely deletes the rp-element at the table. However, what interested me was that you could go on rping even when you can't get the group together. Yes, deleting the roleplaying at the table would be really bad, and even trying to shove it into the background would be very questionable (in my eyes). But that's what interests me is that you could have normal sessions at the table and continue everything but the combat online.

[Telas]

That's definitely true.  We have done one-on-one scenes via email or chat quite often, and the medium works fine for it.  Especially chat. 

My initial reaction to the post was that he's got it backwards.  I prefer my RP in person, but could easily do combat over one of the many 'remote whiteboard' apps out there. 

And then I thought about it some more...   While roleplaying and gaming are two aspects of RPGs, they're inseparable.  The character is both the sheet and the personality, and both need to be used in conjunction with each other.

(At least that's my thought on the matter...)

[Rodyle]

That's definitely true.  We have done one-on-one scenes via email or chat quite often, and the medium works fine for it.  Especially chat.  

My initial reaction to the post was that he's got it backwards.  I prefer my RP in person, but could easily do combat over one of the many 'remote whiteboard' apps out there.

And then I thought about it some more...   While roleplaying and gaming are two aspects of RPGs, they're inseparable.  The character is both the sheet and the personality, and both need to be used in conjunction with each other.

(At least that's my thought on the matter...)

Okay. So basically, what you guys are saying is that dnd isn't fun without either the game aspect or the roleplaying...

Then let me ask this: would it work to do entire sessions online, or would not being able to see each other (with skype or something it's easy to hear one another though) hamper with the fun and immersion of the game? I could understand if something like that'd happen though. It's easy enough for player just to play some kind of game in the background if you're using a computer, which would be a massive distraction.

EDIT: I've been looking into the online whiteboards, but there doesn't seem to be many with enough functionality. Many for a example, are missing a grid function, and having to make one yourself is hell.

[VV_GM]

No, I'm saying that your group may enjoy it very much. I would not. That is all. Your asking us for feedback is sort of a bad approach. Try it out with your group, because in the end they will be the ones who can declare it successful or not. Not trying to be vague here, I just don't think you will get what you are looking for from theorizing. This is a "You don't know if you will like it until you taste it for yourself." situation.

What you described reminded very much of a game I played in that did push the RPing into the online world so that face-to-face time was spent on combat. That group wanted more of a board game experience, so the RPing was more like inventory management. I though the the game was very boring and uninteresting. IT was matter of taste though, because I believe that game is still being played to this day in the same manner.

As for online tools, check out:

http://rptools.net/ - Lots of good free stuff. Try out the MapTool. It can show a grid.
http://www.nbos.com/products/screenmonkey/screenmonkey.htm - Give the Lite version a spin. It too can display a grid.

You might also want to search for a whiteboard plugin for your favorite chat client. There are a few that I have used, but I've never been that impressed compared to the two solutions I mentioned above.

[Rodyle]

No, I'm saying that your group may enjoy it very much. I would not. That is all. Your asking us for feedback is sort of a bad approach. Try it out with your group, because in the end they will be the ones who can declare it successful or not. Not trying to be vague here, I just don't think you will get what you are looking for from theorizing. This is a "You don't know if you will like it until you taste it for yourself." situation.

Since I have zero experience DMing, I thought it might be worth a shot asking something like this over here, to see if anyone has experience with this.

What you described reminded very much of a game I played in that did push the RPing into the online world so that face-to-face time was spent on combat. That group wanted more of a board game experience, so the RPing was more like inventory management. I though the the game was very boring and uninteresting. IT was matter of taste though, because I believe that game is still being played to this day in the same manner.

Again: I agree that cutting back on rping in a normal session would be bad. But my (badly phrased) question was more: does anyone have experience with an online component of their games (of any kind) and if they'd advise for or against it.[/quote]

[VV_GM]

Yes, and IMO mixing the two does not really work with most groups. Now designating certain activities as being "online only" can help a great deal. Shopping for resources in game is easily done online. Players email requests and prices to the GM, and the GM approves, counters, or denies that item completely. That I have seen work out great for some games. Cooperative prep work like that sort of thing transfers well to an online medium.

But in most cases I think a straight up online or face-to-face game works best.

[Rodyle]

Yes, and IMO mixing the two does not really work with most groups. Now designating certain activities as being "online only" can help a great deal. Shopping for resources in game is easily done online. Players email requests and prices to the GM, and the GM approves, counters, or denies that item completely. That I have seen work out great for some games. Cooperative prep work like that sort of thing transfers well to an online medium.

But in most cases I think a straight up online or face-to-face game works best.

Okay. Thanks for the input.

[Kinslayer]

Success or failure is really up to your players.  All of the following is based on personal experience. 

Administrative stuff works well online.  Things like restocking supplies, running domains, even updating your character sheet after gaining experience, are all things that require just the one player interacting with the GM.  If relegated to being away from the table, they no longer eat up precious game time.  A character journal can substitute for an online system.  This is called 'blue booking'.  Midian uses this, but it works for any game system.  Problems arise when some players do absolutely nothing between sessions.  They won't go to the website for character maintenance or update their journals.  They don't even take one-on-one time with the GM when BS'ing and waiting for all of the players to show.  No, these jerks have to wait until it's time to roll some dice, then want to eat up the next hour and a half with the points they want to spend on their character's skills...

Gaming via chat/speaker-phone/whiteboard is also limited by your players.  Many people have difficulty interacting when the other players aren't there physically.  Most communication is non-verbal.  As such, it isn't conveyed as effectively using these methods.  This is especially true when dealing with emotionally-charged content, such as roleplaying.  The biggest problem is that gamers are easily distracted by shiny things.  The guy who can't always be trusted to show up for game will almost certainly forget to log on to the whiteboard, find something better to do, or just get distracted.  Since online methods inherently involve a computer, most people will want to do other computery things at the same time.  Your game session will have to compete with their mp3 collection, pr0n, and mmorpg's that have way prettier graphics (and require way fewer brain cells).  You'll never know if your player stops responding because the connection dropped, or if they went to their kitchen, or if they got distracted by the All Grown Up podcast.

[AdmLee]

That's definitely true.  We have done one-on-one scenes via email or chat quite often, and the medium works fine for it. 

Some of the best RPing, in terms of character development, that I saw in one of my games was done by email between sessions.  The PC that was developing from a teenager into a ship's captain went thru a lot with me to talk about world background, religions, PC's family and a growing romance with another PC, all by email. 

Ouside of a miracle like that happening again, I'm in the crowd that prefers to do the administrative and shopping things online.

I really like it when the long and sometimes circuitous planning and "but do we really want to go that way?" discussions are done after the game session has run out of time.  Having more time to think about responses, IC and OOC, really helps, IMO.

[Telas]

I've been on both sides of very successful IM/chat scenes.  I think it works great for one-on-one scenes where the rest of the party doesn't need to be there.  Combat can be iffy, but social scenes are easy.

[Rodyle]

Yeah...

I asked my players about it, told them that there are very long periods between each session and said that if we tried some sessions over the computer, perhaps we could play more often. They shot it down though; they like sitting around the table and stuff.

On one hand I am kind of bummed that everything will go a lot slower. On the other hand, it gives me more time to plan things in advance, and that they actually go for quality over quantity is a huge plus as well.

[ekb]

I love the idea of online RP. I just hate what's been done so far.

I like detailed world-building: Tekumel is a bit vague for my tastes. Now, if I make someone sit down and read my scribblings about plant germination cycles I need to have those be relevant to their character. To prevent burn-out, I build a Wiki-type thing and keep adding more detail as I devise it...

Wrong! Wronger than wrong! Sure, I'll buy the Chekov Gun in there - but for the most part, I believe that the process of roleplaying like that tends to totally kill the players' contributions to the world and thus the possible enjoyment of all parties. In moderation, I can see having a common set of references to who the PCs have met and where they've been ... but more than that is pretty much wasted the way I see it.

I develop my side-plots and backstory by myself and deliver it to the GM by email/IM/carrier pigeon...

And it cuts out so much of the social part of the game that it's more of a creative writing exercise than anything else. Not that there's anything wrong with creative writing - it's just that it's not roleplaying.

I use an online board, minis and dice roller...

Yeah, why not just play Wesnoth?

Unlike my usual form, I have no possible solutions to the issues I have here. If I did, I'd be coding them rather than writing this reply. It's also something that bothers me greatly - it's 2010 and we should have flying cars and robot maids to go along with all of the cool things we're supposed to have for our entertainment.

[Rick_TWA]

it's 2010 and we should have ... robot maids to go along with all of the cool things we're supposed to have for our entertainment.

AHEM!

[VV_GM]

Those are robot janitors. Robot maids would have feather dusters and call you "Mr. J".