Halloween game for non-gamers?

[VV_GM]

I'm thinking of inviting some non-gamer friends and family members to play a FUDGE game on the weekend before Halloween. It seems like a rather nice match to me that perhaps non-gamers might really enjoy a simple game like FUDGE if the concept were to be part of an interactive ghost story as a sort of Halloween celebration.

I'm not looking to turn non-gamers into gamers with this game. It just seems that Halloween is the perfect holiday for RPGs since everyone tends to get into the spirit of pretending to be something else for a little while. Any comments or suggestions?

[Samir]

They might like it, however they will probably be indifferent ... and find excuses not to participate.

Then again, your Halloween RPG "shindig" could also go down as the event that completely alienates you from your friends and/or loved ones.

-Samir

[Rick_TWA]

They might like it, however they will probably be indifferent ... and find excuses not to participate.

Then again, your Halloween RPG "shindig" could also go down as the event that completely alienates you from your friends and/or loved ones.

-Samir

You're just a BALL of optomism, aren't you?




My experience with non-gamers, and what I'm heard from others tends to be along the lines of:  "It's a fairly unique game that not everyone "gets" so a lot of people just sit there slack-jawed."

That being as it is, make sure that you prepare a little railroading, or invite some gamer friends that are good at involving others (that method actor that always hams it up, for instance) so that things don't slow down to the point where everyone's sitting there blankly forcing you to say "Soo..... Um... what do you do" and get "Dunno.  Guess I'll go home and watch TV." in response.

[VV_GM]

They might like it, however they will probably be indifferent ... and find excuses not to participate.

Then again, your Halloween RPG "shindig" could also go down as the event that completely alienates you from your friends and/or loved ones.

-Samir

Wow. That was negative. I don't know if you were trying to be funny or if you seriously believe what you wrote to a degree.

My wife, who is not a gamer, actually loves the idea because it is a ghost story at Halloween time. I think it will work out just fine, so I am going to give it a shot. Anyone have any useful tips? I'm thinking something incredibly rules light, and the first part of the evening will be dinner followed by drinks and the game. We all have different costume parties to go to this month, so instead of throwing another party my wife and I think the dinner will be a nice change of pace for everyone. Plus I'll be focussing on strong narratives and setting the mood with music, decor, and lighting. The emphasis being more on the holiday spirit then on the game itself.

[Samir]

Wow. That was negative. I don't know if you were trying to be funny or if you seriously believe what you wrote to a degree.

No offense was meant, but you are correct on both counts.

I think it will work out just fine, so I am going to give it a shot.

I wish you the best of luck and an enjoyable evening.

-Samir

[hellibrarian]

Have you considered something like this?
http://www.host-party.com
It's a website for a company that sells the kits for the dinner murder mystery parties.  These are kind of like roleplaying, maybe a middle ground between gamers and non-gamers.  Check at your local library and on the web for free sources of these. (with a name like hellibrarian, I gotta pimp the library)

[VV_GM]

Have you considered something like this?
http://www.host-party.com
It's a website for a company that sells the kits for the dinner murder mystery parties.  These are kind of like roleplaying, maybe a middle ground between gamers and non-gamers.  Check at your local library and on the web for free sources of these. (with a name like hellibrarian, I gotta pimp the library)

I actually did quite a few of these with a friend years ago, and while it is an awesome suggestion for a party they often are costume parties which I am trying to avoid. Also you don't have a great deal of choice with these games in what your character does. Still, it is a great suggestion for introducing non-gamers to roleplaying.

[Chromatic]

When you say "Non-Gamers" do you mean they don't play any kind of games video, board, card etc?

I participated in a dinner party type game several years ago with alot of non-gamer types and having alcohol really helps    The basic jist was the "host" played a narrator and had four manilla envelopes.  Each envelope contained a different set of "stuff" that the host went around the table and had each person draw from.

The first two were filled with pictures of a person, usually from a magazine advertisement, glue sticked to some cardstock.    The men drew from one and the women from the other so that everyone got a "gender appropriate" picture.  The next was an index card with a single descriptive word on it like "bossy", "shy", "brave", etc.  The last envelope contained a folded up piece of paper that you couldn't read.

After each person drew their three props the Host handed out those little folded name seat placements (looks like a little paper teepee with someone's name on it to tell you were to sit).  The were all blank and we were told to look at our picture and word and write down our "character name" on the placard.  Once this was done everyone had to get up from the table and the Host shuffled up the cards and placed them around the table.  It looks random but maybe he had a rhyme to his placement choices.

Everyone sat down in their new seat and the host gave everyone a "picture holder" which was basically a popsickle stick with some glue tack on it to stick your photo to.  That gave each person a little "talking head" they could hold up.  He explained that we had been trapped in the house by terrible weather after a dinner party and that a spirit had begun to posses various guests causing all sorts of odd behavior.

I'm kind of fuzzy on the exact details of the game but on the folded pieces of paper were like 5-6 sentences.  Each one was like a clue or something our character knew.  As the host narrated the story there would be pauses where he'd single out one or two people and they'd have to use their descriptive word and and one of their clues to claim innocence or to try and make a claim about who the ghost possessed.  Some of the "clues" made people have to act out a little thing kind of like charades which of course drew some laughs.  There was a little cherub statue that kept getting moved between players like a hot potato as well though I've forgotten what the mechanic was for it.  I remember you didn't want the thing because when you had it you ended up having to do one of the goofy skits.    

It was not a bought game, at least  not the props, the story could have been.  Overall it was a hoot and as a gamer I can say the use of props is a great way to get non-gamers into the spirit of things since they have a focal point. 

So I guess my suggestions would be
1- Use props
2- Have a storyteller move things along and prompt people since non gamers likely wouldn't volunteer to speak up when someone is telling a story.
3- Don't be afraid to be cliche and use retreaded gimmicks that most gamers would groan at.  These people have likely never seen or heard them and thing typically become cliche because they work too well.

Have fun and let us know how it went. 

[VV_GM]

When I say non-gamers I mean they don't play games as a hobby. They have often participated in various boardgames and/or played poker at my home before when I've held parties or poker games.

I like all three of Chromatic's suggestions, especially the one regarding props.

What about the game choice? I figured FUDGE would be perfect for a one-shot since I could create all of the characters quickly beforehand, and the players would be understand the stats easily (i.e. - "Hey! I have "Great Speed!"). Plus the game system is story focused.

[Telas]

I played in the GenCon Midnight Zombie Game - Zombies at the Oscars, and something like that should be easy to pull off.  It was great fun, extremely rules lite, and mixes well with various social lubricants.  All it takes is a simple character sheet, some motivation (i.e. personality), and a good referee (I wouldn't use the term DM or GM in a non-gamer game).

Basically, the system was AFMBE, but it boiled down to "you're a movie star, with some skills.  Roll a d10, add whatever you think applies, and hit a target number (that I can't remember)."  There were actually very few dice rolls, except at the beginning.  It got very, very silly before it was done. 

If I were to try to introduce non-gamers to the concept of an RPG, I'd definitely have an assortment of characters available, and a vaguely defined goal.  I'd use 2d6 and a target number of 9 or 10 to do anything, plus various bonuses.   (I have no idea if this is from an existing game; it's just an idea.)

FWIW, I was Vin Diesel, and I used my golden d20 holy symbol and old AD&D character sheet of my Cleric to turn the zombies at one point.  The best lines were taken by Samuel L. Jackson, who used "m-f" to great effect, although K-Fed did use his douchebag powers to actually call the DM's cell phone during the game.  Britney and K-Fed were going to repopulate the world with their white trash kids from the relative safety of Neverland Ranch (and MJ was all for it).  Samuel Jackson, Sigourney Weaver, and Joan Rivers concocted an antidote and were going to bombard Earth with it from the spaceship Sulaco.  ("It's the only way to be sure.")  Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, and Katie Holmes got into a weird Scientology battle, and Bruce Willis stole Ahnold's Hummer, only to have Ahnold pull out a remote, say "Hasta la vista, baby", and hit the self-destruct. 

Telas

[Scott M]

Since it's Halloween, I'd have expected something LARPier, but since you're not having a costume party, tabletop makes sense.

I'd try to break it into small chunks, each with an "end", so that you can play for as long as everyone is interested, but not too long after you start losing people.  If you could break it up with alternate theme reinforcing things (decorating halloween cookies, compiling a list of zombie names, telling freeform ghost stories, etc.), then you'll be able to keep it light and interesting.

Good luck!

[Rick_TWA]

As far as system goes, KISS*should be the rule of the day.  I tried something like this with CoC once and it wasn't very sucessful because A: the rules, while simple for RPGs are more complicated than say, monopoly.  B: it hinges on source material my players were unfamiliar with.

You might want to give us a link or post what you've got here so we can see and comment on specifics.  For example, the example you use above: "Great Speed" I would point out unless your players are RPers, comic readers, or think outside the box well, they aren't going to get much use out of.  It's one of those things that's only widely useful when you think outside the box.  I'd make sure the character you gave it to had some useful secondary skills too so that if the player wasn't particularly creative with great speed they'd still be functional.



*Keep It Simple Stupid.  If there's an actually game system called KISS, I was unaware of it and apologise

[VV_GM]

As far as system goes, KISS*should be the rule of the day.  I tried something like this with CoC once and it wasn't very sucessful because A: the rules, while simple for RPGs are more complicated than say, monopoly.  B: it hinges on source material my players were unfamiliar with.

I could see how CoC would have that effect. It isn't just the rules that might be too much for non-gamers, but the settings of the game world as well. CoC is a game with a very distinctive slant on the game world. Even among gamers CoC is something of an acquired taste in my opinion.

You might want to give us a link or post what you've got here so we can see and comment on specifics.  For example, the example you use above: "Great Speed" I would point out unless your players are RPers, comic readers, or think outside the box well, they aren't going to get much use out of.  It's one of those things that's only widely useful when you think outside the box.  I'd make sure the character you gave it to had some useful secondary skills too so that if the player wasn't particularly creative with great speed they'd still be functional.

I'll write something up and post it here. I disagree though that non-gamers wouldn't pick up on something like "Great Speed" easily. These are intelligent people and one of the advantages of the FUDGE game system is that people (both gamers and non-gamers) pick up the rules really quick. And all of these people can "think outside of the box" quite well (I am not a fan of that term, because so often it is used by people who can't think creatively - Rick_TWA being excluded from that non-creative group of course). I just don't see this as being a problem, but I will keep it in mind during the game.

[VV_GM]

If I were to try to introduce non-gamers to the concept of an RPG, I'd definitely have an assortment of characters available, and a vaguely defined goal.  I'd use 2d6 and a target number of 9 or 10 to do anything, plus various bonuses.   (I have no idea if this is from an existing game; it's just an idea.)

Good points. Your concept about simple rolls is already built into the system. I have several homemade FUDGE dice that we will be using, and it is one of the easiest systems I know of. 4 dice, each with two minus signs, two plus signs, and two zeros. Role the dice and minuses and pluses cancel each other out, and zeros count for nothing. So a roll of ++0- result in a +1, and a 00-- would result in a -2 to the attempt.

Since it's Halloween, I'd have expected something LARPier, but since you're not having a costume party, tabletop makes sense.

Yeah, the wife and I already have several costume parties to go to. We wanted to do something different this year.

I'd try to break it into small chunks, each with an "end", so that you can play for as long as everyone is interested, but not too long after you start losing people.  If you could break it up with alternate theme reinforcing things (decorating halloween cookies, compiling a list of zombie names, telling freeform ghost stories, etc.), then you'll be able to keep it light and interesting.

Excellent idea! I will work on a modular design for the adventure. As for other activities, first we play the game then it is on to an assortment of our favorite horror movies to make fun of!

[VV_GM]

Okay, here is the very basics of the character concept for the FUDGE game. I found that these are the traits that I like best for when I run FUDGE, but I might eliminate some that would appear to be redundant to a person who has never gamed before (knock out Endurance and keep Damage Capacity, throw out Knowledge and keep Intelligence). Plus having five traits is easier to manage. I also won't be using Damage and To Hit modifiers.

FUDGE Character Design

Traits: Strength, Speed, Endurance, Knowledge, Intelligence, Willpower, Damage Capacity

Strength: How much lifting power the character can generate. Determines the  Damage Modifier if being used.

Speed: How fast a character is as well as a measure of the character's reflexes. Determine the To Hit Modifier if being used.

Endurance: How long the character can sustain exhaustive type actions, and the character's capacity for special forms of damage (i.e. - poisons, extreme cold, etc.).

Knowledge: How much a character knows in terms of general knowledge (i.e. ? historical dates, simple first aid techniques, articles in today's newspaper, etc.). This is not a measure of knowledge in highly specialized areas (i.e. - how to perform heart surgery, or nuclear physics). What is general knowledge and what is specialized knowledge is left to the GM's discretion.

Intelligence: How smart a character is, in particular how well a character processes data and reaches logical conclusions from that processed data.

Willpower: How strong a character's convictions are and how determined the character is to achieve a certain result.

Damage Capacity: Just what it says it is - how much capacity your character has for taking damage with.

Note regarding Knowledge vs. Intelligence: The two traits might appear to be the same to some people because they are closely related to each other, but they are quite different. For example, a person with Superb Knowledge might recognize a type of puzzle (i.e. - the character looks at the device and says ?That's a Von Schlutterhauzen Cube. If we can figure out how to open it by twisting the dials we will open the secret compartment.?), but a person with Superb Intelligence has a better chance of solving the puzzle (i.e. - the character looks at the device for a few moments and says ?I believe that each dial has to be turned to the correct astrological symbol, but I have no idea what that will do.?). While there can be overlap between the two traits (such as the person with Superb Knowledge would have a better chance of solving the puzzle because he or she knows what it is, or the person with Superb Intelligence might be able to decipher that the cube has a secret compartment) usually the situation will favor either one or the other trait.

The hook is going to be an old horror standby - all the PCs are on a bus heading to Big City, USA when it suddenly loses control for no apparent reason and crashes. The PCs and the other passengers and the driver get out to look at the damage when a fog begins to surround them . . .

Yes, I know it is pretty unoriginal but I want that for this game so that the players will be comfortable with the concept and kept in the Halloween spirit.

[Telas]

I'm just talking out of my, er, hat.  But I think something like this will work.  I am not familiar with FUDGE, and I apologize if this has been done before, but it's midnight, and I'm rambling...   

Basic stats are Strength, Coordination, Toughness, Smarts, Heart, Personality.  Stats are on a -5 to 5 scale, and add directly to the dice roll.  Use a point buy system, with 10 points each.  Yeah, it's a lot like True20.   

Everybody gets 15 skill points to distribute among whatever skills they think they should have.  Let them decide what's appropriate.

Dice are 2d6, and the target number is 10.  For any action, add your pertinent stat, your skill rank, and whatever bonus or penalty the referee thinks you should have to your dice roll.  (So an untrained person of average ability has about a 1/6 chance of doing anything.  A character with 2 strength and 3 ranks in fighting only needs to roll a 5 to hit a target with his fist, but a character with 5 strength and 5 ranks in fighting will always hit.)

Strength affects lifting things, hand to hand fighting, climbing, etc.
Coordination affects throwing things, firing a gun, balance, etc.
Toughness affects getting knocked out, resisting a zombie's bite, etc.
Smarts are both intelligence and education. 
Heart is courage and willpower.
Personality affects social interactions.

"Bruises" (nonlethal hit points) equal heart + toughness + 5.  They recover in an hour's time, but if you go through them, you start to take lethal damage.  Alcohol boosts "Bruises", but detracts from Smarts and Coordination.
"Life" (lethal hit points) equal Toughness + 5, minimum of 1.  When you hit 0, you're comatose.  When either an hour passes or you hit -5, you're toast.  They recover at 1/day.  Certain drugs or medical treatments speed this considerably.

Melee damage is strength + weapon damage.  (Fist = 0 .... Chainsaw = 10). 
Missile damage is weapon damage.  (Rock = 0 ... Shotgun = 10) 
Blunt weapons (non-firearms) do Bruises damage only.  Sharp weapons and firearms do Life damage.

An action is anything you could reasonably do in three seconds, and the PCs always go first, unless they're surprised.

Crits and fumbles are up to you; there's only a 1/36 chance each die roll of getting one.

OK, feel free to chew it up and spit it out...

Telas

[VV_GM]

Telas - Although I think your idea is a good one FUDGE is even simpler! I urge everyone who is interested in rules light roleplaying systems to check it out and download the free rules from here - http://www.fudgerpg.com/fudge.html.

FUDGE uses the following scale for everything:

Superb: +3
Great: +2
Good: +1
Fair: 0
Mediocre: -1
Poor: -2
Terrible: -3

You also can use several types of dice systems (or even play it diceless), but I prefer to use the recommended dF - a Fudge die! I know I have touched on this earlier in the thread, but I will go into more detail here.

You would use 4dF, which are d6 without numbers but instead they have 2 plus signs, 2 minus signs, and two zeros. Now let's say your character has Good Strength and you want to open a stuck door. I as the GM decide that it would take Fair Strength to open the door. Since Fair is equal to zero and Good is equal to +1, I don't even ask for a roll and say you open the door. Yes this example is lame, but it serves the purpose of explaining one way to use the system.

Now let's say you come across a large boulder on the road, and you need to move it. I as the GM tell you that a Superb Strength would be just enough force to start the boulder rolling into the nearby ditch. You only have Good Strength, so now you must roll the FUDGE dice to try and see if you can move the boulder.

If you roll -0++ you would fail. The one minus sign cancels out one of the two plus signs. The zero doesn't change anything. This leaves you with a single plus sign which would be a +1 to your Good Strength bumping it up to Great Strength for this task. Not enough to make the Superb Strength required to move the boulder.

Now if you roll 0+++ you would succeed. The zero doesn't count, but the three plus signs result in +3 to your Good Strength for a total of +4 (remember that Good Strength is already +1). A Superb Strength is +3, and you have actually exceeded that score. So the boulder rolls away into the ditch and you move on.

Now in either case I as the GM can say that a roll is needed or not. Even though you are strong enough to open the door in the first example I ask for a roll. If you roll --00 you would fail to open the door. Fair Strength is needed to open the door, you rolled -2 to your Good Strength (+1), so the result was a Poor Strength of -1. That door remains closed.

Or I can say that you can't attempt to move the boulder because it is just too heavy for someone with Good Strength to even attempt. I tend to let anyone roll no matter how unlikely because it is great for roleplaying purposes, but you get the idea.

Damage is handled by the Damage Capacity trait. If something causes Great damage (+2) and you have Fair Damage Capacity (0) I have you roll the FUDGE dice. If the result is ---- you failed and take 2 levels of damage (I won't get into those now). If you rolled -0++ that is a +1 and so I would say you only take 1 level of damage.  Roll a 00++ that is +2 and I would say that you take no damage. That is how I play FUDGE, but other GMs use various methods.

All traits start at Fair, all skills default to Poor, and I like to use 30 points for character creation exchanging 1 point for every level. So you could use 3 points to have Superb Speed (Fair is 0, so +3 points makes it Superb), and 3 points to have a Great Boomerang skill (Poor is -1, so +3 points makes it Great). For this game though I will pre-generate the characters.

There is a lot more that I could go into, but I hope I have given you the basic concept of the game. The unusual thing is that on paper some people think it is complex, but in actual play it is a fast role-playing focused system. I mean you don't use numbers in the game that much at all. You calculate things in your head automatically after a few dice rolls. So suddenly people roleplay more because instead of saying things like "Hmm, I have an AC of -2 but his sword is +1 and his THAC0 is 4, so there is a 75% chance that he can damage me." which I have heard at some tables (and there is nothing wrong with that), you hear someone say "I have Great Armor, but this guy is a Superb Swordsman and he has a Good Sword! Good thing we have Cleric with Superb Healing Abilities in the party!" which is why I really like the game system. The game stats become part of the roleplaying, so players tend not to break out of character very often. Plus beginners have everything in front of them in plain English which makes the learning curve a lot less steep.

[VV_GM]

And if you don't want to buy FUDGE dice here is an excellent article on how to make them yourself with a permanent marker and d6s with pips (you know, the dots instead of numbers): http://www.fudgefactor.org/2001/12/01/babys_first_fudge_dice.html.

[Telas]

Wow, I really failed my Knowledge (RPGs) roll.  I didn't even know FUDGE was free... 

(Mmm... free fudge...)

You're right; it's very simple and free-form.  I like it.

Telas

[Scott M]

Since VV_GM's more familiar with FUDGE, it's a good option. Telas, I suggest (if you like the core idea of FUDGE) to use FATE-- a slightly refined, more cinematic version of the game with the same basic building blocks, but streamlined a bit.

VV_GM, I think your setup sounds fine.  There are a couple of questions/tweaks I wonder about...

Do the stats you have convey the horror situation you're aiming for?  If it's a mystery, then Knowledge and Intelligence might be important, but if it's a lot of running and hiding, you could eliminate the two and let the players get into character without worrying about "I'm being too smart for my character" and the like.  (I know that was something that confused me when I started RPGs... and Pendragon works just fine with only physical stats.)

I'd be tempted to do away with a damage capacity stat and just inflict wounds proportional to the blow's MOV-- a fair hit might bruise your leg and make you limp, while a great claw slash to your leg means the muscles are shredded, blood's splattered everywhere, and tattered flaps of skin pulse in time with your heartbeat.  I suspect you'll find your players can roleplay out specific injuries pretty well, though you might want to keep the penalties in mind and apply them when appropriate.  ("You're trying to steady the shotgun, but you're faint from blood loss and your leg just isn't stable supporting your weight as you aim. You're -2 to hit...")

If you do keep Knowledge & Intelligence, you'll probably want to pre-consider a few useful things a good roll will give them.  If they have Knowledge and Chemistry you might allow them to McGuyver weapons when things look grim, while Intelligence and perception might allow them to note weaknesses (etc.)

Good luck-- I hope it's great fun for everyone.